Brakes

Technical questions and answers
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mickm
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Brakes

Post by mickm » Tue May 20, 2014 9:17 pm

Another issue, going for MOT next week [THUMBS UP SIGN] fitted all new wheel cylinders, new pipes and a new master cylinder, all brakes work but have too much travel on my pedal for my liking. I am using the drum brakes ( no disc upgrade) have had help before from Alan and other members before which helped but question is can and body send a picture of the brake shoe arrangement please ( which side for leading shoe and trailing shoe ) and sorry for not knowing which is the trailing or leading shoe. Will this effect the pedal travel?
Any advice on set up please as the manual not very clear.
Mick


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Alan
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Re: Brakes

Post by Alan » Tue May 20, 2014 10:39 pm

If memory serves me correctly, the shoes are identical. This wouldn't lead to a long pedal though.

Have you adjusted the shoes correctly using the eccentric bolts on the rear of the plate ? Assuming there are no faults with the system and you have bled all the air out, this is the only other way to get a 'long' pedal.

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Phil.
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Re: Brakes

Post by Phil. » Wed May 21, 2014 12:00 am

According to what I've been told and what I've read; Short one to the front - Long one to the rear. This is to prevent "grabbing". The grabbing part was explained to me but memory isn't what it was. Perhaps others can refresh my little grey cells, but I think it's to do with a reluctance to release or perhaps bind under certain conditions. :scratch:

Sorry if I'm going the "granny sucking eggs" route - but I'd be interested to know the procedure you use to adjust and set your brakes. The reason I ask is that last year I found I was doing it wrong.

The procedure I was told to use is as follows;

Slacken off the cam adjusters on the back plate so the wheel spins freely. Adjust a shoe until it makes contact with the drum then back off gently until you feel the wheel move. At that point, go and stamp down on your brake pedal to "set" that shoe. Go back to the same wheel and do the same for the other shoe. Follow the same procedure for the other three wheels.

At the time I was trying to solve an uneven braking issue on my rear drums - following the "Adjust" and "Set" routine did the job - and as Alan points out it may also deal with your long pedal problem.

Hope that helps :)


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mickm
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Re: Brakes

Post by mickm » Wed May 21, 2014 7:17 am

Hello
Hi Alan and Phil thanks for your reply (this is what I have tried so far) Alan regarding your question shoes are the same but one has more braking surface on than the other think Phils are the same. I have bled and bled the system, fluid all clear no bubbles used pressure bleeder, pumping pedal by partner and snap opening system but still the same[UNAMUSED FACE] to adjust the shoes I have jacked up the jeep adjusted each shoe till wheel locks up then back off till turns with slight resistance then repeat the other shoe, Phil I will try your method maybe that may cure my adjustment and pedal issue[THUMBS UP SIGN]


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mickm
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Brakes

Post by mickm » Wed May 21, 2014 7:20 am

Didn't mean to send that sorry, Phil/ Alan which way do I turn the adjusters clockwise or anticlockwise ( does it make a difference?) I have never had this issue with brakesam I expecting to much from the Mindy? Many thanks for your help guys[SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES][THUMBS UP SIGN]


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Alan
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Re: Brakes

Post by Alan » Wed May 21, 2014 2:18 pm

You can turn the adjusters either way.

It sounds like you have adjusted them properly.

I have never heard of Phil's method of 'stamping' on the pedal to 'set' them.

The adjusters merely prevent the springs pulling the shoes away from the drum and pushing the fluid back into the reservoir. This means you dont have to refill the cylinders everytime you press the brake pedal to get the shoes back to the drum and actually do some braking.

Well set up drums are nearly as good as discs. Only 'sports' braking will show them up because they struggle to dissipate the heat as well as discs. And the age old issue, they go 'out' of adjustment very quickly where as discs self adjust.

Is your pedal spongy or just long ?

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mickm
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Re: Brakes

Post by mickm » Wed May 21, 2014 7:54 pm

Hi Alan
Pedal will pump a little not a lot, still it's just a long pedal shoes are not new but plenty of meat on them [UNAMUSED FACE] not sure what to try next[THUMBS UP SIGN]


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Phil.
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Re: Brakes

Post by Phil. » Wed May 21, 2014 10:52 pm

Had a chat with some VM's today and they both agreed that the short lining goes to the front the large to the rear.

Then I find this conversation from 2009. The plot thickens... :scratch:

http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulleti ... wtopic=843

BTW using the word "stamp" might give the wrong impression I should have said a couple of firm pumps to set the shoe. Here's a pic of the a back plate showing the lining set up;
[attachment=0]JeepBrakes033.jpg[/attachment]
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JeepBrakes033.jpg
JeepBrakes033.jpg (67.68 KiB) Viewed 4488 times

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mickm
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Re: Brakes

Post by mickm » Thu May 22, 2014 3:46 pm

Great picture Phil[THUMBS UP SIGN]
Gonna have the linings replaced with all new been quoted £11 per shoe and adjust again to see if it makes any difference, also spoke to. Mc today and confirms your theory on the way the shoes fit [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES]


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Phil.
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Re: Brakes

Post by Phil. » Thu May 22, 2014 5:08 pm

No probs M8. :hello: Come back and let us know how you get along.

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mickm
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Re: Brakes

Post by mickm » Mon May 26, 2014 7:06 am

Hello
Update on brake situation, but firstly thank you for your help guys[THUMBS UP SIGN]
Jacked up the jeep and locked the brakes on via the adjusters, pedal was well hard with little travel so this must prove no air in the system, backed them all of and adjusted each shoe individual then setting that shoe by pressing the pedal repeated this process 8 times.
Hey presto I have brakes with little travel of the pedal, let's hope the MOT station approves on Friday, also ordered set of new shoes all round from Ahmed just in case.
Thanks guys [THUMBS UP SIGN]


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Phil.
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Re: Brakes

Post by Phil. » Mon May 26, 2014 2:14 pm

With each shoe individually optimised you've done all you can. :D

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mickm
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Re: Brakes

Post by mickm » Mon May 26, 2014 7:20 pm

Image
Just spotted these on eBay do they fit our jeeps?[THUMBS UP SIGN]


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Phil.
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Re: Brakes

Post by Phil. » Tue May 27, 2014 9:33 pm

Looks like it. The line drawing and info do seem suggest it although I don't see any holes or slots to hold the lower short spring. I'd prefer to see a proper photo. Have you got a pic of your own shoes you can compare them too perhaps?

Are they made by or for Renault? :scratch:

If everything checks out might be worth a punt.

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